http://tidbits.com/ Mountain Lion brings some changes to the interface whereby users interact with documents in autosaving applications. These changes might well overcome user objections to the Modern Document Model introduced in Lion. en-us Copyright 2012 TidBITS Publishing Inc. Thu, 20 Sep 2012 00:00:00 EDT Thu, 20 Sep 2012 00:00:00 EDT editors@tidbits.com (TidBITS Editors) editors@tidbits.com (TidBITS Editors) http://tidbits.com/images/tb_logo_152x55.png http://tidbits.com/ 55 152 TidBITS badge http://db.tidbits.com/article/13187?rss#comments_15746 Thu, 20 Sep 2012 11:46:05 EDT http://tidbits.com/article/13187#comments_15746 http://tidbits.com/article/13284. This problem is solved.]]> http://db.tidbits.com/article/13187?rss#comments_15742 Thu, 20 Sep 2012 09:39:39 EDT http://tidbits.com/article/13187#comments_15742
Thanks, Slim, for calling attention to the work-around.

The work-around ain't easy.

To get back the behavior we have been relying on for decades--separating a changed document from the original--which was accomplished in one step by using SaveAs without first saving the open document, the process is now: don't Save; SaveAs; reopen the original; invoke Versions; find the version that is the last explicitly saved version; Save.

Won't that be error prone? Or is the last saved version easily found using Versions?]]> http://db.tidbits.com/article/13187?rss#comments_15521 Wed, 29 Aug 2012 23:25:33 EDT http://tidbits.com/article/13187#comments_15521 http://db.tidbits.com/article/13187?rss#comments_15520 Wed, 29 Aug 2012 23:22:47 EDT http://tidbits.com/article/13187#comments_15520 http://db.tidbits.com/article/13187?rss#comments_15519 Wed, 29 Aug 2012 23:10:37 EDT http://tidbits.com/article/13187#comments_15519
1. Open System Preferences from the Apple menu and go to Keyboard/Keyboard Shortcuts
2. Choose Application Shortcuts from the list on the left
3. Click the plus button [+] at the bottom to add a new shortcut
3. Type Save As… with the ellipsis for the Menu Title
4. Use the traditional Command+Shift+S (or anything to your liking) for the Keyboard Shortcut
5. Finally, click Add

You should now see Save As… in the File menu in apps throughout OS X. It should push Duplicate farther down in the File menu rather than replacing it, as it did using the Option key.]]> http://db.tidbits.com/article/13187?rss#comments_15480 Sun, 26 Aug 2012 22:57:56 EDT http://tidbits.com/article/13187#comments_15480 http://db.tidbits.com/article/13187?rss#comments_15424 Tue, 21 Aug 2012 03:21:41 EDT http://tidbits.com/article/13187#comments_15424 http://db.tidbits.com/article/13187?rss#comments_15418 Mon, 20 Aug 2012 19:49:03 EDT http://tidbits.com/article/13187#comments_15418
I'm not 100% sure if autosave would save your "old document" when you do "Save as" though; I guess you can do a test to check it.]]> http://db.tidbits.com/article/13187?rss#comments_15413 Mon, 20 Aug 2012 05:28:01 EDT http://tidbits.com/article/13187#comments_15413 Now please tell me if I am missing something: When I save a doc via Save As… and give it a new name, the "old" document is closed. Unlike before, it is saved in the state it has at the moment I perform the Save As… command. This seems to be a problem because unwanted alterations are kept and not, like before, discarded.
BUT NOW: When I open the "old" document again and select "Revert to…/Previous Save" in the File menu I get the last version of the document before I did the Save As…, don't I? So, nothing of the functionality is really lost, isn't it?]]> http://db.tidbits.com/article/13187?rss#comments_15360 Tue, 14 Aug 2012 18:14:07 EDT http://tidbits.com/article/13187#comments_15360 http://db.tidbits.com/article/13187?rss#comments_15359 Tue, 14 Aug 2012 11:41:30 EDT http://tidbits.com/article/13187#comments_15359 http://db.tidbits.com/article/13187?rss#comments_15357 Tue, 14 Aug 2012 09:52:18 EDT http://tidbits.com/article/13187#comments_15357 http://db.tidbits.com/article/13187?rss#comments_15358 Tue, 14 Aug 2012 09:42:19 EDT http://tidbits.com/article/13187#comments_15358 http://db.tidbits.com/article/13187?rss#comments_15355 Tue, 14 Aug 2012 02:02:34 EDT http://tidbits.com/article/13187#comments_15355 http://db.tidbits.com/article/13187?rss#comments_15353 Mon, 13 Aug 2012 20:48:57 EDT http://tidbits.com/article/13187#comments_15353
I commend Apple for restoring “Save As . . .  ” (and adding the two System Preferences/General prefs) as a means to honor the dictum:

“Never alter a user’s data without their permission.”

Imposing auto-save upon users violates this dictum to an extreme degree, thus the restoration of “Save As . . . ” is critical.

As Matt has so painstakingly noted, the glaring flaw in the current (OS X 10.8.0) implementation is that edits to a file, in an app that allows auto-save, are ALSO saved to the original file when “Save As . . . ” is selected from the “File” menu.

This is absolutely unacceptable and must be remedied ASAP. Until then, OS X 10.8 is unreliable and thus unusable in a production environment.

Apple needs to be relentlessly (lovingly!) impressed upon about this, and the means is via: http://www.apple.com/feedback/macosx.html]]> http://db.tidbits.com/article/13187?rss#comments_15350 Mon, 13 Aug 2012 19:19:42 EDT http://tidbits.com/article/13187#comments_15350
Secondly, the autosave behaviour was a feature of certain text editors. It was not built into the operating system and did not apply to all editors or any other applications.

But you are right that VMS had features that are still missed.]]> http://db.tidbits.com/article/13187?rss#comments_15338 Sat, 11 Aug 2012 22:57:59 EDT http://tidbits.com/article/13187#comments_15338 http://db.tidbits.com/article/13187?rss#comments_15332 Sat, 11 Aug 2012 14:25:56 EDT http://tidbits.com/article/13187#comments_15332 http://db.tidbits.com/article/13187?rss#comments_15323 Fri, 10 Aug 2012 22:13:55 EDT http://tidbits.com/article/13187#comments_15323 http://db.tidbits.com/article/13187?rss#comments_15324 Fri, 10 Aug 2012 21:09:00 EDT http://tidbits.com/article/13187#comments_15324 http://db.tidbits.com/article/13187?rss#comments_15318 Fri, 10 Aug 2012 16:08:24 EDT http://tidbits.com/article/13187#comments_15318
One model for autosave is that autosaves are never done to the original document but to a separate trail of autosave copies that can be reached when needed. The original document is only changed when an explicit save is done by the user.

Another model is the session model where a document is always copied on opening and autosaved as long as its open, effectively creating session versions. Usually a session can also be saved explicitly in this model anytime a document is open.

It's a mystery how the current version of autosave managed to pass apples usability lab without complete rejection.]]> http://db.tidbits.com/article/13187?rss#comments_15315 Fri, 10 Aug 2012 09:21:33 EDT http://tidbits.com/article/13187#comments_15315
Again I point out -- you give us grief when we complain about functionality *being taken away* by the new saving/Save As paradigm.

And yet, you give a pass to the legions of irresponsible Mac users who were so "incapable of any behavioral change" when it came to saving regularly that a nanny system (Auto Save) had to be put in on their behalf.

The rest of us responsible Mac users wouldn't have a complaint about this if its implementation hadn't taken functionality *away* from us in the process.]]> http://db.tidbits.com/article/13187?rss#comments_15313 Fri, 10 Aug 2012 01:41:12 EDT http://tidbits.com/article/13187#comments_15313
Your fears about "complicating" the Mac experience are unfounded. Why would an inexperienced user go mucking about in Preferences in the first place, or even know to do so? And even if they did, any changes made to this default behavior could be put into effect only after the user clicks through one or more warning dialogs that clearly articulate what he/she is about to do (e.g., "You are about to turn off Auto Save. You will have to manually save your files from now on...otherwise you will be at risk for losing your data. Are you SURE you want to do this?").

Of all the items currently in Preferences, none controls an aspect of the everyday Mac experience more profoundly that the way in which data is saved. I think there's more than enough room to add this one.

Sorry...yours is NOT a rational argument.]]> http://db.tidbits.com/article/13187?rss#comments_15312 Fri, 10 Aug 2012 00:50:33 EDT http://tidbits.com/article/13187#comments_15312
Notice how the Recent Items preference was coalesced from 3 settings to 1? Apple's annoying a few power users (not me), but the strategy is working extremely well for them.]]> http://db.tidbits.com/article/13187?rss#comments_15296 Fri, 10 Aug 2012 00:01:38 EDT http://tidbits.com/article/13187#comments_15296
2) My methods have worked quite well for me in 24+ years of Mac computing. I consider myself to be quite able to determine the saving intervals that work best for me. And if I have ever lost data due to not saving, I blame myself, not my operating system. Where is your disdain for the bozos who are "not in their right mind" and who are so Save-challenged they need an Apple nanny to do it for them? THAT'S irresponsibility.]]> http://db.tidbits.com/article/13187?rss#comments_15310 Thu, 09 Aug 2012 23:15:09 EDT http://tidbits.com/article/13187#comments_15310
May I ask how you accomplished this? I would be overjoyed to find a method for disabling Auto Save and Versions that did not play havoc with the rest of my system.

I've seen reference to Terminal commands that can do this, but they've been accompanied by warnings that they screw up other aspects of the system's operation.

As I've said from the moment Lion was introduced, Apple could make 100 percent of its users happy if they retained Auto Save and Versioning as the default, but gave experienced users a simple means in Preferences to disable them. (This assumes that when they're disabled, true "Save As" as it has always worked is automatically restored.)

In all my running debates on this subject in many forums, not a single soul has advanced a rational argument as to why this would be a bad idea.]]> http://db.tidbits.com/article/13187?rss#comments_15306 Thu, 09 Aug 2012 19:21:30 EDT http://tidbits.com/article/13187#comments_15306 http://db.tidbits.com/article/13187?rss#comments_15307 Thu, 09 Aug 2012 18:39:06 EDT http://tidbits.com/article/13187#comments_15307 http://db.tidbits.com/article/13187?rss#comments_15301 Thu, 09 Aug 2012 17:36:26 EDT http://tidbits.com/article/13187#comments_15301
I think part of the problem under discussion here is that Apple shot themselves in the foot by bringing back a "Save As" menu item which behaves differently then the original. That menu item name comes with a set of expectations for anyone who has used a Mac for any period of time. Apple should have invented a new menu item name for this similar but not identical functionality.]]> http://db.tidbits.com/article/13187?rss#comments_15300 Thu, 09 Aug 2012 17:28:33 EDT http://tidbits.com/article/13187#comments_15300